I’ve read a lot of the pertinent posts at AnimeSuki, and those made me realize that my ‘quasi-summary’ wasn’t even half as insightful as their posts. To make up for this, here’s an intensive disquisition of what ep4 of Honey and Clover II really was. I think it’s going to be somewhat long, so please bear with me.
On Shuu’s loneliness:
I’m not in any way disappointed with Shuu or think he’s a train wreck. I perceive him as an extremely selfless guy, and this is the reason why loneliness often pervades him. He often struggled to discover himself, but ultimately succumbed to his altruistic tendencies. I hope that Hagu, if anything, can help him discover himself as they progress on.
On moonlight as a motif:
The moon in literature has often been perceived to be possessing feminine traits. It also paints a picture of loneliness and solitude, and whenever the moon is mentioned, a silent sadness often pervades that said scene. It vaguely reminds me of how the moon atmospherically commanded and controlled a lot of the scenes in Thomas Hardy’s The Return of the Native, especially those dealing with Eustacia Vye, a woman far beyond her time and place. This was apt in relation to Rika and her relationship with Mayama, because for one, Rika is a very lonely person. She tries to disconnect herself from the world, living alone amidst a blanket of darkness. The moon, however, is a very important recurring theme because it seems the moon, or rather, what it connotes – the darkness, calls for her, beckons her to come and rest forever. It can also symbolize Mayama as the moon to her own darkness – whenever Rika is dealt alongside the moon, Mayama is never far away. In the first season, one scene has him looking up to the moon – and in an epiphany discovering that despite not knowing much about the world or reality, knows that he loves Rika so much that it hurts him, that just coming back meant everything already.
In the Master and Margarita, Mikhail Bulgakov’s masterpiece, the moonlight’s reflection as if painting a path – the one stressed out by the seemingly simple painting by Munch – was the way how Pontius Pilate (IIRC) walked up to heaven. This path, artistically, and as shown in this episode, was a path to the nether world – the other life, the life Rika so painfully yearns for – the life Shuu almost gave her. Moon River, eh?
On Shuuji and Rika:
No matter what shippers of this couple would like to believe, Shuuji didn’t dream of anything more than being a really, really, really excellent friend to Rika, to the extent of trying to kill her, to stop the pain tearing her up inside. ‘A soundless scream’ was how he described it, as if she wanted death to come by her and take her away. He saw himself as only the third wheel in his relationship with both Harada and Rika, proven by the fact that he said ‘although we lived together, it was always myself and them … all I could do was watch over their happiness.’
This would further support the idea that Shuu is simply too selfless and too altruistic that he also fails to develop himself. Perhaps this is why some people call him a trainwreck? I, however, think that he’s a modern epitome of a saint – one who watches over others and sacrifices himself for the sake of them. To end her pain, even killing her was an option to him. That was how much he cared, and if one had a friend like that – one must be a very lucky person. Rika was extremely lucky, and she knew that. She knew how the pain didn’t only tear herself apart, it also tore Shuu apart.
She knew that the only option for them was to stay apart: Harada loomed like a spectre over them, preventing them from improving their lives despite the fact that the contrary was what he always aimed for. Like Shuu, he always wanted both Shuu and Rika to be happy. Seeing that he could no longer help her, he simply hopes that Mayama could take her past Harada’s death, ‘to the future.’
I hope he could take her there, too. I really, really, really do.
On Mayama and Rika:
This is where differences in opinion often pop up. Do we condone Mayama’s stalker-like behaviors or not? Before that, however, let us dissect the scenes little by little:
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The journey to Sapporo. Although nothing much is said, Rika, after saying goodbye to Ueno-san (sp?) looks wistfully at the train marker to Sapporo. Mayama, detecting this, pushes her to enter the train on just a whim. It was simply this force that she needed to finally be able to look back and connect to the past, and for the viewers to realize that Harada was simply as good, even better than Shuuji. Even inside the train, Rika’s still quite austere and even serious. Did I think Mayama was stupid when he did this? I personally don’t. Would she even accede at all to going to Hokkaido if they booked a plane, etc? I don’t think so. I think Mayama showed that he really cared for her by knowing what she wanted – without even asking her. He certainly didn’t perform any stalker behavior when he prodded her to the train – it was simply of genuine love. The simple things that he did for her – turn off the lights, set the alarm, sleep beside her – was everything that he wished for. This is quintessential joy. He couldn’t bear, however, all that pounding joy – it was an unbearable lightness of being, to borrow from Milan Kundera. He slept at the ‘living room’ instead. This can also be taken as his unwillingness to even disturb Rika a little. He wanted her sleep to be as placid as possible that he was willing to sacrifice his. The first thing he asked, however, was when they boarded off the train was if her leg was alright. He didn’t even think of his own well-being, even though he was deprived of a lot of sleep. And despite that, we still see her distancing herself from Mayama, with her lukewarm responses – and superficial blasé to Mayama’s condition. Is this absurd? Simply put, no. There are some people who stay celibate for the rest of their lives as a dedication of their undying love for their partner. This, clearly, was human nature.
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Proving Mayama’s total dedication to Rika was the fact that he tried to hide how he felt, despite Rika knowing. WAIT A MINUTE. This was among the few times Rika expressed concern for Mayama. There is at least a little progression in their relationship between one another.
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The arrival at Otaru, and the destroyed house. This is why H&C is among the best anime of all time. Its atmosphere blends so well with its mood that it’s undeniably masterful. The foggy atmosphere, the gray sky, the bleak clouds blend so well with Rika’s vapid clothing – even her platinum blonde hair – as it contrasts so highly with Mayama’s colorful (relatively) clothes and his brown hair. Mayama became the spiritbreaker of that place. He had arrived to destroy what sad remnant of the past of Rika was, and to bring color to Rika’s life. The atmosphere and how the environment of her place was drawn is very symbolic to convey the scene properly. I think it did.
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We also see why Rika loved Harada so much. Nevertheless, there were still things that tied her to her past, like her dog for example. There were still things that aided her in keeping alive. We also see how ‘empty’ was magnified – her parents didn’t care for her, and it reflected with Rika and her perception that only her dog loved her.
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The implied sex, and the thunderous occurrences. Sex is a consummation of love. We all know that, especially for those people serious with their love. With the act lies the confirmation that Rika, at the least, loved Mayama. It is questionable if her love for him was at par with Harada; she loved him nonetheless. Mayama, however, the dedicated and unflinching lover of four years, knows that she’s up to something. Let’s go back to the first season – it’s implied that they’ve also made love, and that Mayama does anything and everything for Rika. Mayama, however, has no longer become a blind lover – he realizes that Rika makes love to him, no matter how much it hurt him, to either hurt herself more, or to obviate suspicion. This is why he put an alarm on her bag. As I stated in ASuki, it was once a goodbye gift as she was going towards perdition, but afterwards, after that speech, it became an act of love.
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Stalker or not? This is where a bifurcation of opinions occur. Was Mayama a stalker? Taking it to the most technical aspect, yes, he was. However, life isn’t all that simple. Rika isn’t your normal lady, either. He did everything in the name of love. As cheesy as that may have sounded, it was true. Would you seriously think that Rika would still be alive had he not done so? Had she not gone back to Hokkaido, would anything have tied her to living? Shuu has had already gone away, and were it not for him, it would be a safe bet for her to have killed herself. I think the readers would have realized that at ep3 – she was planning to walk the river to the moon. Yes, Mayama may have had been a stalker, and yes, he had admitted to it – but that was to prevent something worse from happening. Did he really have a choice given her personality and her perception about life? I personally condone it. At his position, of course.
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Love or not? I don’t really know, but if it’s not love, it’s inexorably close. This marks the first time that Rika sincerely reciprocated her feelings towards Mayama.
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But it was only a hug, right? Yes, it was only a hug, but it was a reciprocation. After that was the look of guilt on her face, the look of remorse. It seems that his speech more tightly bound her to Mayama, if not the world. To support this further, it seems that post-scene was the first real conversation they’ve had – that wasn’t really about work. She even smiled while talking to him. Hope springs eternal.
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July 26, 2006 at 5:13 am
Personally, I don’t really enjoy getting into symbolism and meaning in anime, but disregarding that for a moment, I think it was a well thought out exposition. I want to make a few points on it though: I don’t see why Shuu need be anything more than a father figure to Hagu. Regarding the sex with Rika, I don’t believe it was a consummation of love but rather as some other blogger pointed out, a goodbye gift to Mayama. The hug was a true consummation of love and a sign that Rika was saved again.
July 26, 2006 at 6:01 am
it’s simple poetric imagery. overwhelmingly realistic.
July 26, 2006 at 6:32 am
I don’t know if I can justify Mayama’s methods, although I can’t fault his intentions – he cared deeply about Rika, and didn’t want to see her off herself the way she appeared to be preparing to do; she really didnt’ feel she had anything to live for, after Harada’s death, save Harada’s work – and she was a step closer to completing it with that Spanish project. After all that, she had no real ties to life; her parents had half-disowned her, her dog (the only one from Hokkaido she felt cared for her) was gone, and Shuuji reminded her of Harada too much. What else did she have? Harada Design – a name that she kept because it represented the one thing she had; Harada’s work, left uncompleted.
As far as the relationship with Shuuji and Rika, I can only repeat what others have said – they were close friends, but that closeness was mostly due to Harada, who acted as the glue in that relationship through their shared affections and comfort for and taken from his presence. In the end, separation was unavoidable because that physical bond was missing – and its loss was killing Rika as surely as it was Shuuji, until he found something else to attach some meaning to his life with (Hagu).
I do wonder, however, what Shuuji will use once Hagu leaves? He doesn’t seem to be the type who can commit himself fully to his work as the thing that gives his life meaning – he seems to use a single person as the focus of his life, be it Harada, Rika, or Hagu. What will he do at the end? Would he be the surprise suicide, perhaps?
July 26, 2006 at 7:22 am
Cheers!
To the guy that skins anime down to the bare core. You have way too much time on your hands Ateneo student. =)
July 26, 2006 at 7:31 am
All is fair in love and war. How does someone like Mayama even begin to connect with Rika? Especially now he “gets” what she’s thinking about all the time? If anything it is a timely intervention that ended on a good note.
As opposed “oh lol Mayama respects Rika’s personal privacy and lets her commit suicide without much of a clue that it might happen”? Real love is messy, folks. Props to H&C for giving us a creative piece of this action.
July 26, 2006 at 11:07 am
Animeotaku, I apologize for this very long commentary, but I had to announce something.
Before I do, let me say that this is a really good essay—very passionate and well-articulated. I think you do have a sweet, naive (sorry) perception of sex, though…and I’m inclined to think that the sex between Rika and Mayama in ep4 was not really so much about love as it was about saying goodbye, given her state of mind. But! I think that the hug she gives him later on, shows that at the very least she cares for him and that she is willing to live again. So in that sense I do agree with you.
Actually I wanted to give a heads up to you and fellow Asians:
The news is that HachiKuro will be airing on Animax soon. Rumor has it it’s to be aired next month or in September. I don’t really have the specific details, such as which countries will be airing this, as this is the only source I could find.
I’m a bit worried…does this mean that the fansubbers are going to stop subbing this? I really hope this isn’t the case, because I’d rather watch fansubbed (with Japanese audio) than the English dubbed version. Not to be a snob, but I hate English dubbed anime on Animax with a passion. There were only a handful that I liked that had decent dubs, and even then I still prefer the original Japanese. There’s just something about English dubs that takes away from the original. And I don’t want it happening with this series! *clutches head*
July 26, 2006 at 11:08 am
Augh, stupid tags! I meant this forum is my source. Sorry for cluttering up your blog.
July 26, 2006 at 4:25 pm
If I remember correctly, I was the proponent of the goodbye gift in Asuki. Although I haven’t really expounded on it here (sorry), it was a goodbye gift (and meant to be one) until Rika realized that she also cared. It’s quite difficult to express in words, but to sum it up, perhaps her perception changed from the supposed parting gift and became really (subliminally?) an expression of her love. Bah. I really hope you do get what I mean – though she meant for it as a goodbye gift and did it as a goodbye gift, perhaps because of Mayama’s speech it wasn’t a goodbye gift after all but a confirmation – a realization that it was a sharing of his and her love for one another, strengthened with the hug – a silent and simple yet meaningful doing.
And yes, I know I have this adolescent suit of naivete (similar to Mayama’s) that I don’t know when I’ll outgrow of. Being an otaku doesn’t really develop my social sense.
July 27, 2006 at 10:06 am
Great – just yesterday i whatched it and.
weird but natural! ). Sometimes he sees her not in the current state of mind but in other condition – probable how she was even before she met Harada. This actually is the only key to save her because otherwise she just will suck even deeper into suicidal tendensies (damn what a wierd phrase!) He seems for her maybe a little bit weak and…dunno how to express but the idea is that she compares him often with Harada, although he uses different methods and actually in general he is a diffent man. This episodes however shows us that in reality Mayama keeps everything in control – that is how he is made – to be secure that important things are not just going on how they are. Well of course it is because he loves her at cares about.
Well.. if we just distract a big from gestures of love and farewell – remember the point with the allarm attached to her bag. That was the culmination of all set – in few words Mayama is of course troubled and strongly affected by love to Rika, yet his a real strong and intelligent man. He naturally feels all that simbols wich were discussed above and ShiT! he don’t cares about them – in the sense that he wish not to loose her at any rate, and probably even don’t care too much about her thoughts on this topic (hehe
A great episode.
damn – we discussed recently that everybody wishes for H&C 3 but the problem that if lines are finished it will loose it sense.
However we found a niiice possibility to prolongate the euphoria from this show – they should made special episodes like in the first series but not only 2 eps – instead about 50 episodes will be nice!!
what do ya think?
July 28, 2006 at 12:32 pm
This episode of HnC really plucked my heartstrings. And talk about immersive! The viewer is easily sucked into the character of Mayama.
I became Mayama and could not help but feel what he’s going through: the god-awful intensity of his possessive love and the depths of his despair that Rika is not only unable to return his love but is unwilling even to live.
That scene where Mayama is on his knees begging Rika to want to live is just heartbreaking.
By the way, can anyone identify the music that was playing during that scene? I really love that song.
July 29, 2006 at 1:43 am
Hi! The song that cebukitty is asking for is titled ‘honoho’ and the singer is Spitz. You can find a torrent on tokyo tosho. This is song is awesome, i’ve listening to it since the beggining of this week. The 4th episode was so cool i watched the last 4 minutes many times. The sad thing is it seems to me that in the next few episodes the Rika- Mayama relationship will not appear because of Rika’s trip to Spain. Nevertheless, i am waiting for the 5th episode’s raw to appear in the net. See you!
July 29, 2006 at 7:11 am
I love you wjzz! thanks for the link, domo arigatou!
February 13, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Bush and the Republicans were not protecting us on 9-11, and we aren’t a lot safer now. We may be more afraid due to george bush, but are we safer? Being fearful does not necessarily make one safer. Fear can cause people to hide and cower. What do you think? Why has bush turned our country from a country of hope and prosperity to a country of belligerence and fear.
If ever there was ever a time in our nation’s history that called for a change, this is it!
We have lost friends and influenced no one. No wonder most of the world thinks we suck. Thanks to what george bush has done to our country during the past three years, we do!
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November 16, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Two new studies show why some people are more attractive for members of the opposite sex than others.
The University of Florida, Florida State University found that physically attractive people almost instantly attract the attention of the interlocutor, sobesednitsy with them, literally, it is difficult to make eye. This conclusion was reached by a series of psychological experiments, which were determined by the people who believe in sending the first seconds after the acquaintance. Here, a curious feature: single, unmarried experimental preferred to look at the guys, beauty opposite sex, and family, people most often by representatives of their sex.
The authors believe that this feature developed a behavior as a result of the evolution: a man trying to find a decent pair to acquire offspring. If this is resolved, he wondered potential rivals. Detailed information about this magazine will be published Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
In turn, a joint study of the Rockefeller University, Rockefeller University and Duke University, Duke University in North Carolina revealed that women are perceived differently by men smell. During experiments studied the perception of women one of the ingredients of male pheromone-androstenona smell, which is contained in urine or sweat.
The results were startling: women are part of this repugnant odor, and the other part is very attractive, resembling the smell of vanilla, and the third group have not felt any smell. The authors argue that the reason is that the differences in the receptor responsible for the olfactory system, from different people are different.
It has long been proven that mammals (including human) odor is one way of attracting the attention of representatives of the opposite sex. A detailed article about the journal Nature will publish.
December 16, 2007 at 1:14 pm
very interesting, but I don’t agree with you
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